Has The Internet Age Effected Bookies Profit Margins?

RPM · May 7, 2005

It seems to me that with the incredible amount of information available on the internet, even the biggest square like me has a huge advantage over what my father had back when he was my age.

i would love to hear a bookies opinion on this....

JudgeWapner · May 7, 2005

I think to a small degree, yes.

Rainbow · May 7, 2005

RPM, you are 100% right, I ran an office in the 1970"s. I paid $300 a month for a service in LV, they were horrible but it didnt matter we beat every player that bet us, that was impossible days to lose booking.

SVT_Cobra · May 7, 2005

Even with all the information that is available to every one online. I think the internet has helped books more than it has hurt them. Think about how much it would cost to transfer several hundred customers from the net to phones? Huge cost benefit there.

Dawoofdaddy · May 7, 2005

Some neighborhood books still sit on # all day and move lines to their liking. Internet has taken away their advantage.

SVT_Cobra · May 7, 2005

Yes but they know their customers. They can kick any one out at any time. They don't have to worry about people coming back in with new accounts. For the most part they have 100% control over who's action they take. I don't think they are sweating either. If they are worried about it, they get a don best account.

winbet · May 7, 2005

RPM,

You have been around to long to worry about the so-called new realisation of odds by new eco-bookies, nothing changes, in fact the more people think it has changed, the better for the informed.

SVT_Cobra · May 7, 2005

winbet said:
RPM,

You have been around to long to worry about the so-called new realisation of odds by new eco-bookies, nothing changes, in fact the more people think it has changed, the better for the informed.

You hit the nail on the head.

Dawoofdaddy · May 7, 2005

SVT_Cobra said:
Yes but they know their customers. They can kick any one out at any time. They don't have to worry about people coming back in with new accounts. For the most part they have 100% control over who's action they take. I don't think they are sweating either. If they are worried about it, they get a don best account.

THUS THE DON BEST ACCOUNT WOULD LOWER THEIR MARGINS WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL THREAD QUESTION. THE INTERNET HAS CERTAINLY MADE IT TOUGHER FOR NEIGHBORHOOD BOOKS TO MAINTAIN PROFITS AND KEEP GOOD CUSTOMERS.

SVT_Cobra · May 7, 2005

DAWOOFDADDY said:
THUS THE DON BEST ACCOUNT WOULD LOWER THEIR MARGINS WHICH WAS THE ORIGINAL THREAD QUESTION. THE INTERNET HAS CERTAINLY MADE IT TOUGHER FOR NEIGHBORHOOD BOOKS TO MAINTAIN PROFITS AND KEEP GOOD CUSTOMERS.

I was assuming any one that would want a don best account, would have enough customers that $500 per month is not going to hurt them.

I think if you ask any one that has been in the business for 30 - 40 years they will all agree that business is much better today than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Rainbow · May 7, 2005

winbet said:
RPM,

You have been around to long to worry about the so-called new realisation of odds by new eco-bookies, nothing changes, in fact the more people think it has changed, the better for the informed.

I dont know what plane you flew in from, but I can tell you this much 30yrs ago booking was pure stealing, it was like taking candy from a baby. I had two guys I let bet me out the latest line in the newspaper, noway I would do that these days, pure SUCKERS back in the old days. I even can go furthur back and remember when you couldnt get a line in LV, everybody got the line from the East Coast, My Dad told me this one guy put out a bogus line out to all the books and he went threw the back door and won a fortune, that was one of the few wiseguys that exixted back in those days. trust me on this one, it has changed tremendously in the last 30yrs not even close.

TheGeneral+ · May 7, 2005

Without doubt, yes, but still 95% losers out there lifetime.

Dawoofdaddy · May 7, 2005

SVT_Cobra said:
I was assuming any one that would want a don best account, would have enough customers that $500 per month is not going to hurt them.

I think if you ask any one that has been in the business for 30 - 40 years they will all agree that business is much better today than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

I AM DOUBTFUL THAT LOCAL BOOKS ARE DOING BETTER TODAY THAN 20-30 YEARS AGO. THE REASONS ARE TOO MANY TO LIST.

25 YEARS AGO THEY DIDNT NEED TO SPEND 500 BUCKS A MONTH FOR DON BEST FOR MOST LOCAL NEWSPAPERS DIDNT PRINT LINES AND THERE WAS NO ESPN. LINES WERE NOT AVAILABLE TO PLAYERS TO GAUGE ANYTHING.

I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS 25+ YEARS AND LOCAL BOOKS ARE LESSER THAN JUST A FEW YEARS AGO.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO MAINTAIN GOOD CUSTOMERS FOR INTERNET IS OPEN 24/7 AND THEY SIMPLY CANNOT COMPETE WITH THAT. THE 2.5/3/3.5 IN NFL ABSOLUTELY GIVES THEM FITS FOR MOST WILL NOT HANG -120/EVEN ON ANY GAME AND SIMPLY USE -110 FOR EVERYTHING.

ALL PLAYERS UNDER 30 HAVE BEEN REARED PLAYING ONLINE, SO UNLESS THEY ARE LACKING FUNDS, WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO GIVE MOST OF THEIR ACTION TO A LOCAL? IF THEY ARE LACKING FUNDS, THEY WILL EVENTUALLY BLOW OUT AND POSSIBLY STIFFING THE LOCAL, AND THUS AGAIN LOWERING PROFIT MARGINS.

I'M NOT SAYING THEY ARE DEAD FOR MANY CASUAL GAMBLERS SIMPLY DONT UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF PLAYING EARLY AND SHOPPING FOR THE BEST NUMBER. HOWEVER, FORMER LOCAL LOYALISTS LIKE MYSELF, AND I DO PLAY MULTIPLE DIMES DAILY, ARE GIVING MOST OF THEIR ACTION TO INTERNET BOOKS THESE DAYS.

wilheim · May 7, 2005

The internet has revolutionized bookmaking and created a whole new hybrid breed of bookmaker/marketer. Not an easy combination for a lot of the oldtimers to adjust to. While there are many more sports bettors these days the competition for their action is stiffer than ever. Personally I believe bookmaing 15 years ago (while risky in US) was much simpler and quite a bit more profitable. Overheads have gone through the roof for most large on-line books with no end in sight. Players have more information at their fingertips and can't help to be even a little sharper with a bit of determination. Just writing action these days does not guarantee automatic riches as in the pre internet past, back then bookies had a license to print money.

wil.

TheGeneral+ · May 7, 2005

wilheim said:
The internet has revolutionized bookmaking and created a whole new hybrid breed of bookmaker/marketer. Not an easy combination for a lot of the oldtimers to adjust to. While there are many more sports bettors these days the competition for their action is stiffer than ever. Personally I believe bookmaing 15 years ago (while risky in US) was much simpler and quite a bit more profitable. Overheads have gone through the roof for most large on-line books with no end in sight. Players have more information at their fingertips and can't help to be even a little sharper with a bit of dertimination. Just writing action these days does not guarantee automatic riches as in the pre internet past, back then bookies had a license to print money.

wil.

Very good post Wil.

Aquatic · May 7, 2005

The line Bob Martin put out in Vegas in the late 60s through the 70s and up to 1980 was as sharp as anything since. The limited hours old books kept was another reason for good profits. The information now available everywhere doesn't guarantee winners but makes more people get involved looking for edges which many times creates a new batch of losers.

The biggest advantage a book now with Don Best has is that it keeps the line in sync so most of the complaints about clone books is the same reason why people state that local books lose that hold numbers. The days of syndicates just getting constant rundowns so they could hammer an office when an order came out before Don Best was a live source were bad days for books as well. Those were the golden days for middlers.
Don Best in the early 90s was a dial up service with an update when the call connected you. You had to keep dialing in to keep getting updates and after a book was hit on a number they could then call to check the latest line and see it was now 4.5 rather than 3.5 for example that they just got hit on.

jorzavfa · May 7, 2005

In my opinion internet provides more info for boths customers or books, what I think is that now books "cant do whatever they want" because of the competition so they need to stay with the best line around, and this give players an advance.

Also nowadays there are so many places where u can get ur picks and more inside info. So For sure internet change the way bookmaking and wagering was before.

But this doesnt warranty that a player is going to win or that a book is. this only warranty that the book is going to win the juice and nothing more

wilheim · May 7, 2005

The days of syndicates just getting constant rundowns so they could hammer an office when an order came out before Don Best was a live source were bad days for books as well.

Sharp books with sharp clerks only took one hit at a number from syndicates and made a ton off followers chasing steam at bad numbers.

wil.

Aquatic · May 7, 2005

Wilhelm

Many books got hit 3 or 4 times to a single game line when there were multiple rundowns taking place. The classic in office line of "I GOT IT TO" to the charter. You get the same followers now just watching Don Best and playing on-line with second lays.

THE SHRINK · May 7, 2005

Excellent topic...

Wilheim stated it so eloquently from a BM's perspective...

I'll give you a different perspective that will also answer your question too RPM...

10-20 years ago, I could NEVER beat the bookmaker...

For the past 5 years, I have NOT HAD ONE LOSING YEAR...

Now I know a lot of you may not be able to match this extreme from the gambler's perspective, but I do suspect many gamblers who frequent this site and other quality forums lose a lot less than years ago...

And some, actually WIN...

Meaning BOOKMAKERS don't KILL the GAMBLER as in years past...

My 2 cents...

THE SHRINK